A Chat with Cliffs + Caves (16.08.23)
Best known for their unique Americana sound, mother-daughter duo Cliffs + Caves bring intimate lyrics wrapped in smooth melodies to their listeners. We speak with Lindsey Justice about the duo’s new EP Lost The Trail, recording with David Ramirez, binge-watching TV shows, and future plans.
OSR: What drew you to create music as Cliffs + Caves?
Lindsey Justice: We were at Laity Lodge Family Camp at the headwaters of the Frio River in the summer of 2016 when Claire was 13 and we randomly signed up for a songwriting class together led by Sara Groves. Something clicked in both of us and we began writing songs together when we got home and posting them onto an Instagram page. A producer in Hollywood found us online and that began the recording of our first EP within a few months.
OSR: Why do you think music is important in today’s world?
Lindsey Justice: Music is healing and unifying – it is universal. The sound of music can be enjoyed beyond language barriers. It has the power to meet someone in their sadness or bring them out of sadness. It is an emotional connection that at a concert can unify an entire room full of people who may have nothing else in common. Or at a festival, thousands in a field outside together smiling and singing together regardless of differences that in other situations might divide people. It’s one of the most wonderful gifts God gave to us.
OSR: What can you tell us about your new EP Lost The Trail?
Lindsey Justice: Some of the songs on Lost the Trail we wrote before Covid and some during, and after Covid changed the world and our rhythm of playing live. So much division has happened in our culture over the last few years, we felt like there’s this deep longing to emotionally connect with people, and we have an opportunity through music to bring people together. So, we wanted to make an album that people could sing together around a campfire or listen to on a hike or on a road trip.
We personally experienced so many changes in our mother/daughter relationship over the course of writing these songs as Claire was leaving for college. I had to really let her go and give her space to become separate from me and get used to barely ever having time with her. It changed our process for songwriting because we were forced to come up with ideas and write independently, and then would have very limited time when we scheduled for me to drive to her college town and knock out songs in my hotel room. So, it was much more of a meshing of our separate thoughts coming together in a magical way that surprised us.
Lost the Trail is one of the lines in the bridge of ‘The Coop’. It perfectly captures how we felt about our own relationship as a mother and daughter. As a child becomes an adult and leaves the house, you realize there really is no road map for parenting. You may THINK you have it figured out when they are younger, but as you grow alongside your kids it’s a lot of letting go and admitting there is no known path. We have learned to enjoy whatever life throws at us and whatever precious time we can squeeze in to be together.
OSR: I see you collaborated with David Ramirez on ‘Mint Gum’. Why did you opt to bring him into the song and what were the benefits and challenges of collaborating?
Lindsey Justice: We actually wrote ‘Mint Gum’ with David in his living room in Austin, but at the time we never dreamed he would join us on the actual recording. He is one of our most favourite singer/songwriters; seeing him play live just wrecks you. He is so masterful with words and his soul comes out through his voice when he’s on stage. So, it was a crazy idea Claire had late one night in a hotel in College Station while we were trying to finish up writing for this EP last fall when she was a sophomore at Texas A&M. She wanted to ask him if he would record with us on that song and he so kindly said yes. He has such an insanely busy touring schedule, there were definitely times I thought it would never actually happen. But he generously made time and knocked it out of the park. It’s our most streamed song and we still freak out to hear David Ramirez’s gorgeous voice singing on ‘Mint Gum’.
OSR: As a mother-daughter duo, what are the benefits and challenges of working with each other?
Lindsey Justice: Our relationship changed so much when Claire left for college at Texas A&M. We went from spending tons of time together every single day to now we’re lucky to get 48 hours together over 6 months. We have such an innate bond, but it’s important for me to give her space to become an independent young woman following her dreams of becoming an equine veterinarian while also pursuing music. It’s an enormous amount of big things to balance at a young age as a 20-year-old. She has to study so hard to make the best grades to get into veterinary school (everyone tells us it’s harder to get into than medical school), but we try to make all the pieces fit with the current time limitations. Touring isn’t ideal with her schedule at the moment, but it’s just something we have to work around to squeeze in gigs. We hope to plan our EP release shows in the fall and we have a big event downtown on Oct. 17th in Houston that we’ll be performing that benefits Haitian children and families through an organization we adore called MyLIFEspeaks.
OSR: What do you hope people take from your music?
Lindsey Justice: We hope people smile when they hear the happy songs and it lifts their spirits. And some of the songs we hope meet people in the hard tough moments of life so they feel less alone.
OSR: Now for a couple of random questions: what recent experience made you feel old?
Lindsey Justice: Going to see BoyGenius play in Dallas a couple of weeks ago for the RESET Festival, Dijon was an opener. The music was insanely good but the outfits of all those cute young people at the festival definitely made me feel old because so many of the 80s vibes I grew up with have come back around again with the fashion.
OSR: What is the assumption that people make about you that’s totally wrong?
Lindsey Justice: We get the Judds comparison a lot. No one could compare what they did and the incredible songs and performances they had as a mother/daughter. We just are in our little lane of the Americana world writing songs that resonate with us.
OSR: What is your favourite TV show to binge-watch and why that one?
Lindsey Justice: I love zombie shows, so definitely The Walking Dead. Claire knows that if it happens in real life, I’ll be hiding behind her and she better save me from the zombies. I’ll have my eyes closed, I’d be terrified. She would be a great zombie killer.
OSR: What future plans do you have as Cliffs + Caves?
Lindsey Justice: As for playing live, we hope to schedule our EP release shows around Texas this fall and have the very exciting MyLIFEspeaks event with Tim Tebow in October at the Cullen Theater Wortham Center in downtown Houston. We also have some music videos we are excited to share later this summer. We just keep rolling with wherever this leads us.
Many thanks to Cliffs + Caves for speaking with us! Find out more about Cliffs + Caves on their official website, Instagram and Spotify.
